Should bankruptcy exist?
Bankruptcy is the root of all injustice. When someone can finance 0,000 for a house, file bankruptcy, and then continue living in the house scott-free, there’s something wrong with our government.
I’m a FIRM believer than bankruptcy shouldn’t exist. I’d rather receive someone’s detached arm in the mail as compensation for unpaid bills than a government issued judgment against that person, or bankruptcy papers. Because both mean the same thing: you get nothing.
Bankruptcy is truly the most gross example of injustice in the United States and people do it multiple times in their lifetime. Nothing good can come from bankruptcy. What are you thoughts?
By the way, the "injustice" I’m referring to is to the people who have loaned that person money. If you are considered an "unsecured loan", it’s about a 99/100 chance you’ll get absolutely nothing. If you are a "secured loan", in which only home mortgages and car loans can be, you will get your money though it will take forever. Finally, the lawyer who performed the bankruptcy gets 100% of his fee. Where’s the justice in that?
Bob Zoo down the street who loaned John Doe 00 to get a new car, and even had John sign a promissary note now gets absolutely nothing due to the bankruptcy, and is out 00, AND John Doe gets to keep his car.
WHERE IS THE JUSTICE?
slimick, there were no incorrect assumptions. I don’t know what state, country or planet you live on, but here in Arkansas that’s the way it works. I’ve done my homework. I know who gets paid, who doesn’t, and why. Unfortunately your response had nothing to do with anything I was talking about. You just wanted to hear yourself talk about medical issues. Great job there in the relevance category. Not.
And you’re right. I don’t care about Enron. I care about the little guy. The little guy who owes people money and files bankruptcy. Money or an arm. It’s that simple. Or I’m gonna take it out of their ass.
At crazyjes… yawn. Too much to read, too ridiculous. Who cares about what companies do, I’m talking about people vs. people. Never seen Goodfellas. Not a collection agency agent. Just a regular ole Joe Blow who’s been screwed too many times by people, whilest people like you sit there and defend the unjust bankruptcy system that lets them get away with it. I certainly hope someone screws you out of money so you can be on the receiving end of bankrupty. It’s such a nice feeling.
Oh, and as for your hypothetical woman with so many kids who had to file bankrupty, well she should have thought about that before she married the first guy she met in high school, and then quit school to have four kids. Yeah. She did it to herself out of stupidity. I want her money too if she owes it to me. It’s like that. Justice for Justice. Money for Money. None of this, "I charge up stuff and not pay it." Totally unjust. The laws should be changed. People should be shot for this.
For one thing, I do find this a little harsh and insulting to your fellow man. Not everything in this world is cut and dry as you make it out to be. It just sounds like you have never been in a rock and hard place to consider bankruptcy. Did anybody ever consider the fact that maybe those who have declared tried everything that they could to avoid this and really tried to work with their creditors to pay off their debt.
March 29th, 2010 at 2:12 amWow, you really shed some light on this for me.
March 29th, 2010 at 2:12 amI agree I am one of the only people I know who has no dept. I paid for college by semester, bought my car out right and am saving for a house. I think loans for these things are needed especialy for housing but if you can’t pay it you should not be able to keep it. I am tired of working my butt of or waiting to buy something so I have enough money and watching people buy whatever they want and then not paying for it.
March 29th, 2010 at 2:12 amSince, there is no national heath care policy in America. A lot of people use a bk to save them from the drowning debt and medical bill. A normal trip to the e.r. is at least thousand dollars
March 29th, 2010 at 2:12 amI totally agree bankruptcy shouldn’t even exist. My mil just filed bankruptcy earlier this year and has already ran up her boyfriends credit cards now. He’ll be filing next its a joke.
People that get into debt they can’t afford shouldn’t be able to file bankruptcy they should attach their wages and take a portion of there funds each month.
March 29th, 2010 at 2:12 amDrop the whining and preaching….Funny how your rant didn’t touch on the issue of giant corporations using BK….You rage against the little guy who files for BK but no mention of travesties like the Enron BK?
There are so many incorrect assumptions in your posting that I don’t have time to address them all.
1/2 of all BK filings are the result of medical debt. There is no universal health care in this nation…48+ million have no insurance….most of these people are the working poor…..Something as simple as an appendectomy could cost $40,000 for surgery + two nights in the hospital.
Chapter 7 does not void out/discharge mortgage obligations….No one filing for Chapter 7 will be living "scott free." Neither does Chapter 13 eliminate mortgage obligations.
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FYI: there are ways for small business owners to manage their risks from clients.
Diversify your customer base.
Use credit applications.
Lending money or extending credit to customers without checking their creditworthiness is asking for trouble, because you run the risk of not getting paid if the customer files for bankruptcy. You can protect yourself from the risk of nonpayment and preserve your ability to challenge fraudulently incurred charges by having a customer give you a detailed, written, and signed credit application. For a sample credit application form, see Legal Guide for Starting & Running a Small Business, by Fred S. Steingold (Nolo), or Quicken Legal Business Pro (Nolo).
Verify customers’ credit history.
After the customer has completed the credit application, verify the information — or find out the truth — by obtaining a credit report from one of the three major credit-reporting agencies. You’ll need to subscribe to one of their services. The big three are:
* Equifax, at 888-202-4025 or http://www.equifax.com
* Experian, at 888-217-6064 or http://www.experian.com
* TransUnion, at 312-466-7363 or http://www.transunion.com.
If your customer is a business, credit reports can be obtained from Dun & Bradstreet (888-814-1435). By reviewing the credit reports you receive, you’ll be better able to predict how likely the customer is to default on a loan. If the customer ultimately does go bankrupt, you’ll be better protected by showing you reasonably relied on a positive credit report.
Require a cosigner or guarantor.
You need not rely on just one person to pay a debt. If the customer is an individual, you can ask that someone else cosign for the debt. If the customer is a business, see if one of the principals will guarantee the debt. By requiring a cosigner or guarantor, you will be more likely to receive the money you are owed if the customer to whom you provided credit files for bankruptcy.
Obtain collateral from customers.
Ask the customer to give you a security interest. A security interest allows you to sell the property that is collateral (either goods you sold to the customer or collateral for a loan) in order to collect your claim if the customer doesn’t fully repay you. Although a customer’s bankruptcy will hamper your ability to sell the collateral, you’ll be in a much better position than the "unsecured" creditors (who have no collateral).
Cash all checks promptly.
Don’t let checks sit around your office. You may think you’ve been paid as soon as the check arrives, but the law says the money isn’t yours until the customer’s bank honors the check. If the customer is sliding toward bankruptcy — a fact you may not know until it’s too late — you’re better off getting that check through the system as soon as possible.
Require cashier’s checks or money orders.
If you’ve got reason to worry about a particular customer’s financial situation, don’t accept a personal (or business) check. Cashiers’ checks and money orders are legally considered equal to cash, so the transfer occurs as soon as they’re given to you.
Review long-term customers’ credit.
A customer who three years ago passed your credit application with flying colors may be in different straits today. Depending on how well you know your customers, periodically ask for updated credit information before extending new credit.
Look for signs of looming bankruptcy.
A business customer who is at risk of filing for bankruptcy may exhibit warning signs, which you can catch if your radar is on. Start asking questions if you notice a customer’s:
* pattern of late payments
* selling off of assets
* changes in company personnel
* changes in payment practices
* changes in buying patterns, or
* doing business in an industry or region that’s undergoing economic decline.
Know when to sue.
March 29th, 2010 at 2:12 amIf a customer has a delinquent account, don’t let a mere threat of bankruptcy stop you from suing. The worst that’s going to happen is that the customer will file for bankruptcy before you receive a judgment for the debt, in which case bankruptcy’s automatic stay will simply stop you from collecting the judgment until the case works its way through bankruptcy court. The best that could happen is that you’ll get a judgment and you get paid by enforcing it against the customer’s income or property before the customer files for bankruptcy.
Wow, where to go with this one.
First off, I’ll echo when Slimick said and say it’s a complete joke that you made no mention of the businesses (both big and small) that declare bankruptcy every year. Let me guess, you’re a collection agent or a businessman right? Because that is what your bias would indicate.
Next, how about the inaccuracies in your post. No one can finance a house, declare bankruptcy, and then continue living in the house. If the house is not included in the bankruptcy (to be sold to pay creditors) then the debtor must continue paying on the house (called re-affirming) to continue living there.
Most gross example of injustice in the United States? Hardly. I can think of several bigger injustices just off the top of my head.
You also ignore the new bankruptcy laws that passed in 2005 to limit abuse of the bankruptcy system, laws which actually caused more harm to the average consumer than they helped.
And who is to decide when someone should or should not be allowed to file bankruptcy. For every example you can provide of Joe Blow filing bankruptcy when he didn’t need to, I can find 3 examples of the single mom who is overburdened with medical bills for her sick child or the college student who gets in a car accident but can’t pay their medical bills because they didn’t have medical insurance and the at fault driver didn’t have insurance either. Should those people be forced into hardship, having wages garnished and assets liened just so you can claim a moral victory? What a load of crap.
Furthermore, bankruptcy is a protection afforded to us under Federal law, I highly advise you learn to deal with it, because it isn’t going anywhere.
EDIT: Wow Gravity, does your hypocrisy know no bounds?
YOU are the one incorrect on BK filings. Slimick is a great poster who has been in here for a long time and very rarely do I ever see him give incorrect information. He’s also very correct about BK being a federal process, the only thing the states do is allow exemptions for certain properties.
His response has nothing to do with what you’re talking about? Uhhh, hellooooo…you were talking about BK and he brought up how most BK is forced on by medical debt, so he was in fact discussing a VERY relevant point.
And more hypocrisy! You care about the "little guy" yet rant against the bankruptcy protections afforded to the little guy! Newsflash goofball, BK filings HELP the little guy far more than they hurt them.
"Money or an arm. It’s that simple. Or I’m gonna take it out of their ***."
Now I’m convinced your a collection agent. Not only was your post full of misinformation, I also see that mafia mentality that is all too prevelant in collection agents who have watched Goodfellas a couple times too many.
I’d love to see you attempt to "take it out the ass" of someone who declared bankruptcy. You’ll either get slammed into dust with fines from the bankruptcy court (assuming you are involved with a legitimate business) or in jail if you’re just another bozo who fancies himself a mobster.
EDIT AGAIN: Boy, you’re on a roll aren’t ya Gravity? Too much too read? Boy, talk about a cop out, especially for someone who has claimed to studied the bankruptcy laws.
Who cares about companies? So you don’t have a problem with businesses declaring BK and the people they owe money too?
Been burned by people who declare bankruptcy? Well then maybe you shouldn’t be so irresponsible in your lending. As a rule, I never lend more money to someone then I can reasonably afford to lose, so I don’t have that problem.
Funny how you took my hypothetical woman and turned it into a high school drop out with 4 kids when I made no such mention of that situation. Biased much? Also funny that you didn’t touch the one about the college kid with no medical insurance.
Face it Gravity, you’re just another internet Billy Badass who likes to ride around on their "personal responsibility" high horse.
March 29th, 2010 at 2:12 am